Knowing Jesus: Beyond Rituals and Into Relationship

Ever wondered if simply attending church and following rituals is enough to truly know Jesus? Join me, BR Maul, as I recount my personal spiritual journey, beginning with my upbringing in the Lutheran church where I believed that church rituals and infant baptism were sufficient for being a Christian. We dissect 1 John 2:3-6 to understand how knowing and keeping Jesus’ commandments is the true reflection of our relationship with God. I’ll share how my perspective on a biblical relationship with Jesus evolved over time, the misconceptions I faced, and the importance of aligning our lives with God’s Word for true transformation.

By examining verses 3 and 4, we highlight the essential nature of loving God and our neighbors, breaking down the Bible’s definition of love in contrast to Hollywood’s portrayal. Through a personal anecdote about differing perceptions of a gym teacher, I illustrate how structure and adherence to rules can provide comfort. We also discuss how familial and marital relationships shape who we are, drawing parallels to our relationship with Jesus Christ. Consistently engaging with God’s Word, prayer, worship, and fellowship with believers leads to spiritual growth and sanctification, helping us live God’s way in an often ungodly world. Tune in for a thought-provoking discussion that challenges conventional religious beliefs and invites a deeper, more genuine connection with Christ.


Blog Entry

Have you ever questioned whether going through the motions of religious rituals truly brings you closer to Jesus? BR Maul, in his latest podcast episode “Knowing Jesus: Beyond Rituals and Into Relationship,” takes us on a revealing journey from formalities to genuine faith. He opens up about his childhood in the Lutheran church, where he mistook rituals for a true relationship with Christ. This personal reflection sets the stage for a profound exploration of what it really means to know and follow Jesus.

BR Maul turns to 1 John 2:3-6 to delve into the core of Christianity—obedience to God’s commandments as an expression of our love for Him. He unpacks how Jesus distilled the law into two overarching commands: love God and love your neighbor. By contrasting biblical love with society’s diluted versions, he invites listeners to reassess their understanding of Christian love.

Maul also touches on the security that structured religious practices can offer, sharing an anecdote about differing perceptions of a gym teacher to illustrate how structure can shape our experiences. He then seamlessly transitions into discussing family dynamics, drawing a parallel between our earthly relationships and our spiritual bond with Jesus. As our interactions with loved ones influence us, Maul argues that our spiritual growth similarly depends on consistent engagement with the Word, prayer, worship, and fellowship.

But it’s not just about knowing Jesus; it’s about embodying His teachings. Maul emphasizes that living out the commandments is the litmus test for our relationship with God. He calls out the dangers of professing faith without practice, challenging listeners to live authentically in Christ.

The episode isn’t merely a call to action; it’s a guide for spiritual transformation. Maul provides practical advice on how to immerse oneself in God’s Word and let it permeate every aspect of life. By doing so, he assures us that we can cultivate a faith that not only withstands the challenges of an ungodly world but also reflects the very nature of Jesus.

This blog post merely scratches the surface of the wisdom imparted in this episode. BR Maul’s candid storytelling, coupled with scriptural insights, makes for a compelling listen that urges us to rethink our approach to faith. Whether you’re a lifelong believer or someone exploring Christianity, this episode has the potential to reshape your spiritual outlook and inspire a deeper, more authentic connection with Jesus Christ.

In a world that often values superficiality over substance, “Knowing Jesus: Beyond Rituals and Into Relationship” stands out as a beacon of truth, encouraging us to seek a transformative relationship with God that goes beyond the confines of tradition. It’s an episode that not only enlightens but also empowers us to live a life in true alignment with our Creator’s design.

Podcast 60 Transcript

(This is a computer generated transcript of this podcast. This is NOT a typed transcript and it has not been edited. Expect grammatical and syntactical errors.)

Hello, and good day. I am B. R. Maul, and this is Living God’s Way in an Ungodly World. So good to have you here with me. Today, we are continuing in the book of 1st John. We are in chapter 2, and the readings are from verses 3 through 6. Today’s reading is going to help us to take a look at our relationship with the Lord, as really, hopefully you are seeing, like I have been seeing, being in God’s Word, that we are in a relationship with the Lord. It’s about the relationship that we have with the living God. And today is going to help us take a look at how we can know if we truly know him. Because that’s important, right? We need to know who he is so we can follow him. So John does a good job at helping us with that today. And so the reading is 1 John chapter 2 verse 3.

Now, by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He who says, I know Him, and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever keeps his word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in him. He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Here ends the reading. Thank you, Heavenly Father, for this time to go over your Word. And I thank you for those listening, and I pray, Lord, that you soften their heart, open their hearts up to your word, that they may hear the Holy Spirit speak to them, and that they will have courage to do what the Holy Spirit is telling them to do. I pray this in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. As I have shared in the past, I was brought up going to a Lutheran church when I was a boy. And everything that I knew about Jesus, about God, came from the church. My family, growing up, we weren’t active in reading God’s word. In fact, when somebody did open the Bible in our house, which would usually be my mother, it was rather foreign. I wasn’t used to it. As a little boy, I felt like that was out of place. After all, wasn’t the church where we opened up God’s Word, and wasn’t it church where it was okay to do that? Because we don’t want to make people uncomfortable, and we don’t want people to look at us and think that we’re weird. And so, anytime a Bible was taken out, outside of church, anywhere for that matter, well, as a little boy, I found that to be odd and uninviting, because I was almost afraid of that.

But here’s the interesting thing. As a teenager, and beyond, there were times when, in discussions with somebody about anything to do with what God has said, so, death, afterlife, what a follower of Jesus looked like, act like, any of that stuff. It didn’t come up often, I admit. And there was a time that I defended infant baptism, because I was baptized as a baby. My mom even showed me the certificate, so that proved I was baptized. And I remember looking back, and even with Confirmation in the Lutheran tradition, and others as well, but Confirmation is a time when a young person studies Scripture, memorizes some Scripture, goes through a class. After going through the class, Confirmation in front of the congregation, the church body, the children stand up, and each one of us would recite from memory the verse that we had chosen, and explain why we chose that verse. Once it was all done, the pastor confirmed us. To me, it was quite logical, then, for someone to accuse me of not being a Christian. Well, they were just flat out wrong, because I knew I was a Christian.

Now, that’s a scary thought, and that is one reason I teach, to this day, God’s Word, and reach out to as many people as I can, because I know that there are millions of people who share a similar past as myself, and were involved with similar teachings that misguided. And ultimately, I place the blame on the devil, because he is going to do everything possible to take away God’s children, the chance, I should say, for people to become God’s children, but then take away the blessings from God’s children by doing everything he can to pervert what the Bible says.

So in today’s reading, it helps me to look back at this time, because there were a couple of times I became angry and very defensive when somebody tried telling me that being baptized wasn’t enough, because my family supported that, church leadership that I attended, and I attended the same church for most of my childhood. They not only defended it, but they taught that. And week after week, I was eyewitness to little babies being baptized, and the church celebrating that, and year after year, there were confirmation, and we celebrated that. And these were good people. People in our church were kind, generally. They were there. They took the time to come. They took the time to visit after the services, and have coffee, and some brownies, whatever it might be. For So these people were caring enough to take time out of part of their Sunday morning. So I took great offense, and there were times that I argued, but when I argued, I was arguing because I was protecting what I thought I knew of Jesus Christ.

My relationship with Jesus as a child, well, wasn’t biblical. In fact, Jesus, I had painted in my own mind what he was like. Why did I do that? Because that’s what I knew growing up. That’s what I saw other people doing. Hearing things like, well, Jesus loves you no matter what. No matter what you do, Jesus loves you. Jesus accepts everybody for who they are. And sometimes extremes like, well, we’re all going to go to heaven. It’s just sometimes the path looks different for other people. All this is false doctrine. But some of what I just said had a lot of truth to it. Does Jesus love everybody? Yes. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. He loved the world that he gave His only begotten Son, so whosoever shall believe on him, whosoever anybody. So no one’s left out and everybody is loved. It is the will of God that everyone should join him in heaven and that no one should go to hell. So why is that road so broad and wide that leads to hell?

Not in every case. But so often it’s because we don’t know Him. We know of somebody that we have painted in our mind, that we have already designed, and this is how he will react. This is how he thinks. This is what he will do. And we can see that in the reading today. So I knew Jesus by other people, because I wasn’t reading the Bible. Sure, there were times that in Sunday school, or even some assignment here and there, that I needed to read the Bible, but I wasn’t reading it with my heart. I was reading it because I was told to read it, to get through an assignment, or to get through that Sunday school class. So, the Jesus I knew came only from what other people were saying about Jesus.

We need to talk about Jesus. We need to come together as brothers and sisters in the faith and talk about our Lord and Savior. We need to talk about our struggles in life as a Christian. And what does our Savior say about that? What is our Heavenly Father telling us to do in response to this world around us?

That’s why I talk about living God’s way. Because the world teaches us, in most denominations, that we still live the world’s way. But then we need to also, when convenient, on Sundays, or at least Sunday mornings and shortly after, perhaps Wednesday nights for some, church events, things like that, that we need to behave ourselves, that we need to live God’s way. Otherwise, we need to make sure we get the work done here on earth that the world has for us. And so the Jesus that I knew growing up was one that served my needs, my wants. He wasn’t the Jesus from the Bible. Let me unpack these four verses for us. So verse 3, now by this we know that we know him if we keep his commandments.

Wow, I mean, think about this. This is rather simple. Now by this we know, and this should bring you great comfort, beloved, because you can know that you know Him. If you keep His commandments. So are you keeping His commandments? Perhaps the first question then would be, Do you know His commandments? Well, Jesus makes it pretty simple for us, right? Because He knows that we can be pretty thick headed, stubborn. And so he said, let me make this really easy. Instead of remembering all the other ones, let’s just remember two of them. One is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your might. And with that, the second is much like it. Love your neighbor as yourself. Hmm, well that does make it a lot easier, right? In one word, to sum it up, is love. That’s what we’re commanded. And of course, love the Bible way. How God tells us to love. Not love the Hollywood way. So that’s one way right there that you can know that you know Him, that you know Jesus, if you are keeping His commandments.

Otherwise, if you don’t know His commandments, and if you don’t know what Jesus spoke of, how He spoke of them when He walked this earth, well then we don’t know Him, and it will be hard to follow His commandments, right? Because we need to know how Jesus loved when He was here. That’s that sacrificial love. Not the surface-level love, not the Valentine’s Day love, not the Hollywood style love that comes with this big explosion of passion and then eventually fades away. I take comfort that I can know that I know him, just like we can know that there’s one truth. Again, that’s the world teaching us that there are many truths. You can have your truth, and I’ll have my truth. Let’s just get along. But that’s not THE truth. Verse 4 He who says, I know Him, and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. Well, there’s a statement. John doesn’t hold back at all. He throws the punches right then and there, and that’s good.

In our society, in America, there are many who claim, yeah, I know him. But my heart goes out because they claim they know Him, but they’re not living like they know Him. And what John is saying here is, well, then we should know better than that. A born again believer, someone who does indeed know their Savior, will keep His commandments.

And they do know him. And here, the word truth is brought into it. John says, he who says, yeah, I know Him, and does not keep His commandments, so doesn’t live like Jesus at all, is a liar, and, so not only is he lying, but worse, the truth is not in him. There’s the truth. When you read the Bible, there’s the truth.

There is only one truth, and Jesus says that He is the truth. So anything outside of Jesus Christ, anything outside of what He said, what He lived, His gospel, is not the truth. Well, that kills every other religion out there, and it kills all denominations that stand on anything else but the Bible. And there, unfortunately, are a lot of denominations, which means there’s a lot of organizations that have added something or taken something out of God’s word. Period. Because for us to have anything outside of being a follower of Christ, that we need to make our own doctrine, to make up our own ways of worshiping, saying this is how you do it, and this is what it means to do it, this is what it truly represents, well then it’s outside of God’s word. And we know as Christians, that is a big mistake. Very big mistake.

When I was a boy, my brother, he was four grades ahead of me in school. So my older brother would have this knowledge, that I wouldn’t have, of teachers in the higher grades. One particular teacher comes to mind. He was a gym teacher in one of the elementary schools. And my brother was telling me about him. And boy, describing him, I thought, this guy is going to be tough. So when I got to that grade, and this is who my gym teacher was, I was pretty afraid. Because the way my brother talked about him, this guy was mean and really hard. But you know what? The teacher wasn’t that way. My brother and I are two different people. Surprise, surprise. So we view people differently. I’m the kind of person where I’m more structured. I feel safer. I feel better when I have sort of a list of things to get done. And having order, I take comfort in that. Looking back, when my brother was a kid, he was different. At least that’s how I perceived it because there were some authority figures he didn’t like. And this particular gym teacher was one of them. So I don’t know. Maybe my brother had a run in with the guy. I don’t know. My brother was bigger and more outspoken than I was. I was one who just played by the rules and did what I was told often. I found this gym teacher to be refreshing because he kept some of the kids in line that were acting up. I really liked that, because then it made people play by the rules. We all had those kids in our class when we were younger that hated following the rules. And if they weren’t pushed to follow the rules, well, they just didn’t do it. They would do things their own way. But this gym teacher, nope, he wasn’t going to have anything to do with that. It was the gym teacher’s way, or no way at all. I think I found comfort in that.

But I had already had what this gym teacher was going to be like. He’s always going to be really difficult. He’s going to make us run over and over. He’s going to be so mean. He’s always going to be yelling. See, I had already painted a picture in my mind’s eye. I had already drawn up an opinion of him. But that’s not the way he was. See, isn’t that something, when we actually start to get to know somebody ourselves, then we can start developing an opinion of them based on what we know, not what others are saying. So, do you see how that can be complicated, when people say they know Jesus, but they only know him through hearsay, what the pastors and priests say, or what movies say. The thought is frightening that people would actually base opinions about Jesus and God based on any kind of show or movie, regardless of how biblically accurate they may be. So John is saying, you have to be able to follow Jesus, to keep his commandments, and then you will know Him.

But whoever keeps His word, so that’s the word of God, the Bible, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. Numerous times already, have you caught that, in Him? This is something internal. So it’s not just head smart. This is something that’s a part of who we are, and our soul is who we are.

So, when we’re talking in us, we’re talking our soul. And there are things in our soul that we keep near and dear to us. Love is a big one. But in verse four, for example, he who says, I know him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him. Verse five, but whoever keeps his word, truly the love of God is perfected.

In Him. By this we know that we are in Him, as in, in Jesus. So when the Word is in us, and perfected in us, then we can follow His commandments, and the truth will be in us, a part of who we are, in other words. And then we can know that we are in Christ, that we are in Jesus. So John isn’t just saying, know Him, as in, head smart. Nope, that kicks that idea right out the door because for us to know him, to be in him means we are a part of him. Let me say something quickly about this word perfected, okay? Verse 5, truly the love of God is perfected in him. That doesn’t mean that we have perfected his word because we know him so well so we got it, we’re down pat, it’s perfect.

And so, the love of God is perfect in us, making us perfect. No, that perfected in the Greek means completed. Truly, the love of God is completed in us when we keep his word. So, that means it’s a part of who we are. You can’t get rid of it. You can’t separate the word of God. You can’t separate the truth, you can’t separate the love of God, because it is a part of your being, a part of your soul, inside. That’s powerful. I mean, that’s huge. And then verse 6, He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as he walked. Now, as He walked, past tense, because, well, we weren’t there when He was walking. We’re able to take that timestamp and look at a time in history when Jesus Christ walked the earth. He was physically present, but he showed us, having his apostles, eyewitness, and then the Bible written. And the Old Testament is all about Jesus. But now also the New Testament, when we can read about the way he walked and talked, we have reference to that. And, if he does abide in us, John is saying, well then, we should walk just as he walked. Just as Jesus, our Savior, walked. And, of course, that means live the way he lived.

I think about families of those that I know that there’s a child or two, or sometimes all of them, who act like one of their parents. Have you ever told somebody, wow, you are a spitting image of your mom, or you look just like your dad. We have these ways of like identifying somebody and knowing who they came from because of their mannerisms, their actions. Do you know somebody like that? Maybe you’re somebody like that. Maybe you, you are told often that you look or act just like your mom or just like your dad. Even when we don’t want to, right? We want to be our own person. But even though I don’t see it, my wife will sometimes remind me after a family get together how much my brother and I and my dad, we have the same mannerisms. So that gets me thinking, well, that is interesting. And why is that? We can talk genetics. I don’t doubt that that certainly plays a part in that, but I think even more importantly is being around the person.

And that’s why children often pick up on the mannerisms of one or both of their parents. I see that today with my own mother, with my maternal grandmother, my mom’s mom, their mannerisms, the way their voice sounds, their expressions, even how they view things. The reason I say that it can’t be just genetics is because I see the same thing in married couples who have been married for a while, that often they start looking alike, if that’s the right way of putting it.

I mean, maybe some of it is as simple as the clothes they wear, the colors that they like or don’t like. Obviously, they have to agree on some level when it comes to the house they live in, and so I’m sure that they both have certain colors that they don’t like, and so the spouse doesn’t wear that color, because either they don’t like the look of the color, or their spouse doesn’t look like that color, or both.

That’s just one example of many, but there’s things that my wife says to this day that she learned from her mom and dad and her extended family. Things that she’ll say that I catch myself saying from time to time that I never used to say before because before I met my wife, I didn’t even know these expressions existed.

Now, I can give as an example the other way around. Growing up, from the Norwegian side of my family, Uffda. You know anybody who says that? Uffda. Well, my Norwegian grandmother would say that. And I picked it up as a child, and to this day, without thinking about it, Ah, I can sigh in Uffda. Well, my wife, who has absolutely no Norwegian in her, I catch her from time to time saying, Well, why is that? Let’s think about this for a moment. It’s because we know the person and that person is near and dear to us. And even if the person isn’t dear to us, they’re near us. The reason I say that is because, well, there’s people who pick up habits from a parent, for example, that they didn’t like those habits. That angered them when their parent did this or said that. And they vowed they would never do that, or say that, and then they are. So the people that we live with, that are close to us, that we know. That’s the unique thing about a family structure, because in the family, there are people who are different.

My brother and I are very different, and yet, we grew up in the same household. We can’t pick our parents. Hopefully, you love your parents. Just as important, hopefully, you like your parents. But that isn’t always the case, is it? We may love a family member, but we don’t like being around them. So these are people we normally wouldn’t choose, if we were able to, to have as parents, or to have as siblings, but we know the person, and we know We know them because we can often say something that they’re thinking.

Why? Because we’ve heard it many a times. Someone might say, oh, yeah, what’s your mom or dad think of this food? Do you think they might like that? Oftentimes, we can say yes or no. Why? Because we’ve lived with them, so we understand that. Same thing with our spouses after we’ve been together long enough. We just know there are certain things they like, there are certain things they don’t like.

Beloved, this is the same thing we need with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. How are you going to know what Jesus likes? And what he doesn’t like if you are not living with Him, if you are not abiding in Him. Being born again is not the end all. Being born again is the beginning. When we are born again, our spirit awakens. Our spirit is born. And the Holy Spirit resides in us. and starts that sanctification process. But a baby Christian, someone who is just born again, and Paul talks about this, can remain a baby Christian for a long, long time.

When we are born physically, we still need to eat, so we still need to consume food. Without the consumption of food, what happens? Well, the physical body will just die. So we need to feed our bodies. We need to make sure that we drink water. We bring that, we consume that water. Well, the same thing for our spiritual self. We can be born again, so now our spirit is alive and we are sealed from the Holy Spirit and we are assured through God’s word that we have a place in his kingdom when we enter eternity.

But until that time, there’s a sanctification process. And that process is when the Holy Spirit starts to form us in the image of Jesus Christ. How does that happen? Well, that sanctification happens When we are reading his word, when we are praying to him, when we are worshiping our Lord and Savior, when we are coming together with brothers and sisters in the faith, and we are talking about our Savior, when we are talking about what God is doing in our lives, what we are learning from him, what he is teaching us now, what he taught us yesterday, in that process, we are being sanctified.

And, like the food that we are eating to help our physical bodies grow, We are consuming God’s word, so our spiritual self grows. We must consume God’s word. It’s not an option for us to be sanctified. However, it’s not necessary in order to be born again. Because being born again, that’s by faith. And thank God that he has done it that way. Because God doesn’t say, I want you to study this Bible. I’m going to test you on it. And if you can pass this test, then I will make you born again. Oh, thank you, Lord, that he didn’t do it that way. No, it is by faith. That we believe on his son, Jesus Christ, and then we are born again. It takes no knowledge.

It takes the faith. But once we’re born again, to grow in our faith, to know Jesus Christ, is to consume his word, to be in it. And the more we’re in it, the more we grow stronger. Do you know someone who is spiritually strong? That their walk with Christ They are anchored in his truth, that they are not shaken by what’s going on in this world today.

If you know someone like that, think about it. And if you know them well enough, think about what their life is like. And if you don’t know, if you’re comfortable asking, talk to them. How did they become so anchored in their walk with Christ? And if it’s the true Christ, If it’s the truth, not the Christ that I knew growing up, that I had painted in my own mind from what others were telling me of him, but the truth, and that person will be one who reads God’s word.

Our Heavenly Father loves you so much, because God loves us. He gave us His Son to die for us on the cross, so we may have eternal life. We don’t become friends with somebody and not get to know them. We may become acquainted with somebody, and then really not get to know them. Sure, I think we all have a lot of relationships that are that surface level. And that’s okay. Not every person in our life can be a best friend. Or even a really close friend. But those who are close to us, they’re close to us because we have invested time in them. And in return, they’ve invested time in us.

Well, Jesus has already invested that time, beloved. He wants to know you. So, if you’re not investing that time, start today. Don’t wait. Don’t put it off and say, well, tomorrow I’ll think about it. No, no, no. Do it now, or do it as soon as possible. Open up God’s Word if you haven’t been doing it. Maybe start in the Gospel of John, and the Psalms are also a good one. And if you have been following the Lord Jesus, and you read His word on a regular basis, I challenge you, if you’re not doing it every day, to make it every day.

This isn’t legalism. This isn’t do it or you’re going to get yourself in the trouble with God. No, it’s because of the relationship aspect that you need to be able to do this. So your walk with him, your spiritual walk with him, grows, becomes stronger. That’s why. And if you’re already doing it, if you already have anchor down, that you just know that you know the Lord Jesus, Oh, keep it up, beloved, and help others do that. Help another Christian that just, perhaps, is just awkward. They’re afraid because this world mocks the idea of spending time with the Holy One. If we’re not spending our money on just having fun, the world thinks, oh, you’re just a goody two shoes. Well, you know, if it takes to be a goody two shoes to walk with the Lord, I’m a goody two shoes.

Makes no difference to me, as long as I’m walking with the Lord. So for you Christians out there that you’ve been walking with the Lord for a while, one, we don’t want to get too comfortable, right? Because we can all fall into that. We don’t want to backslide. We don’t want to ever get to the point where, yep, I know him. I’m good. And then just move on. No, don’t want to do that. But if you’re there, celebrate it. Celebrate it tonight and give thanks to the Lord, right? Cause he’s the one helping us with that relationship aspect when we’re reading in his word. But then please help another Christian out who they don’t have it down pat yet. It’s just awkward for them. And when they see that you’re doing it and when you encourage them and even maybe do it together, get together weekly with that Christian. And then encourage that person to daily read the word, because wow, that is when God starts to move in our life. And to know that you know Jesus Christ is awesome, because He is awesome.

Thank you so much for joining me. It’s great to have you here. And I encourage you to get a hold of me at my website That’s B R M A U L dot com. There’s a page you can click on for contact. While you’re at my website, you may also notice that I have a tab. Books. I have already written a couple of books.

A publisher has taken it and they have made it into a second edition, and that is actually a fantasy fiction. C. S. Lewis, when I was a little boy, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, I loved how he connected his Christianity into that story, because as a Christian I could see it. And it was really encouraging to me as a little boy.

So C. S. Lewis is a big inspiration for this Christian to speak about salvation and other issues in the form of young adult fantasy fiction. The series is Portals, Passages, and Pathways. And book one is available on Amazon, and there’ll be more on my website coming. And there’s more books coming as well.

This ministry takes a lot of time, a lot of effort, and resources. So any way that you can help, there’s a place on my website to go ahead using PayPal. We have a P. O. Box. That’s P. O. Box 126. Frazee, Minnesota, 56544, if you’d like to write a check or money order. You can also send me letters. Oh, I love to get letters. Love to hear how brothers and sisters are doing. So you can send me a letter or email me if you’d like as well. Go to my website, there’s a place to sign up for the newsletter. If you do that, then every episode that comes out is automatically sent to your email. This podcast is available on about 18 plus different applications on the internet.

Again, thank you so much for joining me. I appreciate it.

And until next time,

God bless.

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